This truck transporting all lumber is a perfect representation of why wovens and mesh don’t work for me
If you take a look at the truck bed, the lumber is held up by multiple posts rather than tie downs or tarp. The reason they use posts is because the lumber will shift, roll and gather momentum eventually stressing and or/breaking the tie down. Fabric ties just don’t have the same strength as steel posts.
The same thing occurs with your foot when you’re playing basketball or any sport that requires lateral movement. Think of your foot and ankle as the lumber that shifts, rolls and moves on the truck bed or better known as the foot bed. If you take a look at my containment videos or pics you can see that the lack of a firm structure on the lateral side just allows my foot to slide out. Obviously, the upper won’t tear but containment is still the issue.
Here you can see how easy it is to push the foot out from a static position on the J Crossover 2 and Crazylight Boost 2015
Ironically the AJ XX9, which is one of the first shoes I noticed this problem on, isn’t nearly as bad as what I’ve experienced lately although it still doesn’t get high marks from me.
Obviously containent issues are dependent on personal factors: weight, height ( center if gravity matters), how you move on the court ( if you cut and change directions quickly a lot. All these factors combined equate to how much lateral force you put on a shoe. As we learned from Nike in the Kyrie campaign
Force= mass * acceration
So a bigger player with equal acceleration will put more force and stress on a shoe than a lighter one. And players of similar size and build but different acceleration will put different forces on the shoe’s upper.
It’s not that I think basketball shoe companies don’t understand this because they do. Duke at Weartesters interviewed Dave Dombrow from Under Armour recently and stated the reason for the synthetic forefoot versus full Speedform was enforced containment purposes.
Not to mention the Brandblack J Crossover 2 Low will feature synthetic in the forefoot, not a full woven upper like the mid. So at least some companies are picking performance over looks on occasion. The Kd 8 actually had good containment without changing the upper material as Nike decided to double up on the woven in the right places. The Lillard 2 also has great containment thanks to a hidden skeleton.
I haven’t had a chance to look across all shoe segments but I know Nike has implemented Flyknit into soccer and football cleats but they aren’t pure Flyknit as most have an overlay of some sort for durability and containment purposes.
Here is Nike’s Mercurial Superfly that features Flyknit plus Nikeskin
This article is a bit dated but sounds like the same gripes I have
Pretty cool website, here is the full article
Adidas really added some lateral support on these.
(By the way, holy crap Soccer and Football cleats are expensive! )
So if Nike and Adidas are adding lateral support to knit uppers on their cleats, why not basketball shoes ? Obviously they know the need of the athlete so my only guess would be style and to a lesser degree, cost.
Outside of running shoes, basketball shoes are probably the most popular shoes to wear casually so shoe companies are trying to make a compromise between style and function. Adding support on knit just takes away from the clean one piece look and of course adding more pieces and materials to a shoe costs more money to make.
One large segment that doesn’t feature wovens at all yet is tennis. Tennis requires a ton of lateral starts and stops and pure wovens would be a terrible choice for the player and the shoe manufacturer. I’d say 85% of tennis is played laterally so players would notice the lack of containment quickly. Tennis shoes tend to emphasis lateral containment first and foremost due to this reason.
Here is the Adidas Barricade V, which is half structured mesh on the forefoot and medial side and leather on the lateral side. Notice the bear claw at the forefoot for additional containment at the forefoot
It would be more expensive to add enough extra structure and support to a tennis shoe than to just use synthetics. However it has been done .. Back in 2003 with the Nike Implosion.
Nike had to add a TPU frame similar to the Shox Stunner as well as a hidden foot stay to keep the foot contained properly. It is super ugly but effective. No exactly what companies want in terms of looks.
Don’t get me wrong, wovens and mesh feel great on foot and require zero break in time; they work great in running shoes since there aren’t lateral movements. But with basketball I’d would rather keep my foot on the footbed than have an upper that conforms to every nook and cranny on my foot. None of my top 5 have a full woven or mesh upper for containment reasons alone. Just because wovens are the latest craze doesn’t mean it is the best performance wise. You have to remember that show nerds comprise about .000001% of the target market and the regular consumer will just eat up whatever marketing is thrown at them.
Until then I’ll keep trying for the sake of trying of course.
i think KD 8 did the best job in 2015 for containment …
I agree it did a great job
Great piece. You brought me back memory lane, the Shox Stunners were one of my favorites with the zipper and strap. As for wovens, the JC2 was one of my favorites, but after only playing in them like 10 or so hours, the material has stretched too much where I won’t even play in them anymore.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Yea wovens have nearly zero elasticity so not surprised yours stretched out . I never tried the stunner but I sure remember it lol. Shox bb4 for lifer !
I haven’t experience that tilt in JC3. I’ve been guarding quick guards a few games now so a lot of lateral movement defensively. It’s weird
That’s great for you because it’s a nice shoe just not for me. Btw on sale at finishline for 119 now
Dope only if they’d get the blue colorway , I stopped hooping in the JC2 cause of the forefoot sliding off the footbed laterally defensively. Haven’t notice it in the JC3. I think you’re right certain shoes aren’t made for everyone
Yep. 119 is a good fair price for the jc3 imo but still sitting so expect more cuts . Jc3 definitely improved over jc2 overall
Please please please try the Nike Vapor Tour 9.5 Tennis Shoes for hoops sometime. They are phenomenal shoes, probably the most comfortable shoes I’ve tried on period. Great herringbone traction, low to the ground cushion (heel Zoom), amazing upper lockdown and fit.
I have a few pair . I use them for tennis and Bball outdoors . Zoom is decent but the rest of the shoe is great. I’m a big fed fan btw
#1. Gept well soon and get back on the court.
#2 Thoughts on the upper of the 29 low if you have them? And the overall cushioning and impact protection as well. Thinking about picking these up but lack of air in the heel is a downer. Choice is between 29 lows and blackout Durant 8’s.
I am not a fan of the xx9 don’t know if you read my review. I tried the xx9 low on a feels same as the mid to me. I prefer heel zoom as well bc it does matter . You don’t run up and down the court without touching your heel to the ground . Anyways forefoot zoom feels pretty good not as good as the xx8 . Heel foam feels like foam. I like the kd8 a lot and you get better containment with the kd8 as well as a stable length zoom set up . Hope that helps
Excellent post schwollo. I’m wondering how i missed this one. Your comments about the xx9 low are spot on. It’s a mid disguised as a low. I used to think they were pretty good since they got 2 hall of fame ratings from wt. I went true to size and found them to be narrow and unstable plus the poor heel to toe transition doesnt help. Glad they changed the jc2 lows to synthetic. I just bought the 2.5 lows and i’m looking forward to wearing them
LikeLiked by 1 person
Ah yes the 2.5 jc looks like it fixed my issues with the 2 but still not what I’m looking for. Kd ix is another example of woven knit uppers that feel good but don’t do their job as well as they could esp with wear and stretching
I was wondering if putting some shoe goo on that area helps? Will it make a difference?
I don’t think so, needs to be a stronger physical structure attached to the midsole imo.